concretesubmarine.com/ FORUM

Pretty much a simple little survey of sorts. We currently have the M9 (Beretta 92FS 9mm) as the standard issue side arm for most military MOS's. There's no substitute for the old Colt 45, but if you happen to find a 9mm Luger and the extractor and the ejector don't break, well there's just something about the Luger that is magnificent! I guess I'm just one of those people that think, if you're using a side arm, someone is too close and you need to knock them down. Ill takes stopping power over velocity any day.

You can hit target on the earlobe with a .45cal and knock it flat. If the police had .45s instead of 9mm in the Hollywood shootout, they would not have had to get rifles from a gun store. It might not have gone through the armor but would have knocked them flat and let them close. Just ask the FBI about their tragic 1986 Miami shootout. On the linked chart note the weapons of agents Grogan and Dove, the two agents who lost their lives in the Mini Draco For Sale battle. The agents had to shoot the two suspects several times to bring them down--none of the FBI agents involved were armed with .45 caliber weapons.

As I understand it we converted to 9mm in order to conform to NATO. In my opinion it was a ridiculous compromise. The purpose of a side arm is to defend yourself in close quarters. A 9mm will injure an adversary, but leave him active enough to possibly still do you harm. 45cal. on the other hand will disable the individual most entirely. Made by Colt or whoever the 45. Is superior for flat out stopping power and NATO should have conformed to us. . 45 bring 'them back alive. Beretta is mucho regretted.

I've also heard that the model 92 Beretta has a problem with not chambering the final round in its magazine. Don't know if it's been worked out, but it could be a major problem. I have both 9mary ammo and a 45cal. prefer the 45 over the 9mary ammo. Have concealed weapon permit, I carry the 45cal. My 45 is over 33 years old and still shoot like it was brand new. I go through a box of ammo for each every month. .45 calibers. The premiere mans-stopping round, proven over and over as an excellent heavy pistol round since 1911.

I think the .40 cal was a compromise, going up to the 10mm, but the .45 was designed to drop a drug-crazed terrorist (also known as a Moro tribesman in the Muslim influenced areas of the Philippines'). I say bring them back. I have witnessed what the 9mm doesn't do. .45 any day. While the venerable 45 was, in fact, designed to knock down the original uppity Muslims and almost 100 years later is still relevant. On a personal note, I could never qualify above Sharpshooter with it. With the M9, I got Expert the first time out and every shoot afterwards.

The Beretta 92F was brought in because the US needed to maintain the bases in Italy. It was very simply a "Quid Pro Quo." No studies were done, no one's opinion was asked, the change was simply done. No military member I have asked would take a 9mm over a .45. Many people I talked to owe their lives to the .45.

I've also heard that .45s are like gold over in Iraq, as soldiers there are trying to get their hands on one because the 92F doesn't do the job. The only way a 9mm can stack up to the .45 in stopping power is if you're using Black Talon or Gold Dot hollow-point ammo. However I have heard these two brands of ammo are now restricted.