concretesubmarine.com/ FORUM

Aquaculture at large scale in protected coastal waters seems to create some problems maybe moving the business to the high seas is the only viable solution.

National Geographics Magazine has an article:

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/08/photogalleries/future-fish-farms-pictures/photo6.html

Once on the ocean attending a submerged fish industry - giant surface flat floats - or submerged concrete shell structures may be the ideal live aboard solution suitable for doing the job.

The floating shell structure will be for "housing" purpose. It will replace the "ship" as working platform.

The "gardening" must work in the ocean in the sense of "aquaculture" - the community will produce "seafood". If we do meat and crop in floating structures it will be "cultivating cells" , hydrophonics and similar.

I agreee that a couple of small seasteads can live on tourism and ship/yacht services - but probably not a larger development. Aquaculture, Mining, Energy (wave, wind, geothermal) are things that can create more permanent settlements due to their "high business volume" capacity.

Tourism is already attended (cruseships beach condos), fishing is in free fall towards no future, so there must be something new and sustainable that has a "future" and where living on the ocean is a advantage not a draw back.

Most important anything we will IMPLEMENT on large scale in the next 50 years must be "invented" and "somehow solved and out there" already today.

Just remember internet - connected computers are around since the dawn of DOS - internet is just the massification of a "long invented thing" on "larger scale". Somehow large scale implementation has a quality of its own. The core of seasteading is "large scale implementation" of existing "waterfront development". So making just another "glorified cruiseship condo" will not lead us anywhere. Social relevant developments are the massive implementation of techniques invented 50 years ago - this is kind of a general rule.

Living on the ocean done by the Moken...

Underwater Exploration Reading List

The History of Underwater Exploration / Silent World (National Geographic Adventure Classics) / Sterling Biographies: Jacques Cousteau: A Life Under the Sea / Sealab: America's Forgotten Quest to Live and Work on the Ocean Floor / The Eternal Darkness: A Personal History of Deep-Sea Exploration / Submarines and Submersibles (DK READERS) / Seven Miles Down: The Story of the Bathyscaph Trieste / The Lost Ships of Robert Ballard: An Unforgettable Underwater Tour by the World's Leading Deep-Sea Explorer / Submarines (Pull Ahead Books) / Understanding Yacht Design /

Lakeland, there has been a lot of discussion about this in the seasteading.org forums (the old drupal ones) and the consensus is that for platform building it must be modular simple economic. So i would just go for the most simple shapes the most easy form of connection etc.

You will find what i have investigated on this field when you search "concrete honeycomb structures" with the search function of this forum. (cube, box, shapes) catamaran shapes, plate shapes.

Aquaculture will certainly be a driving factor in ocean colonization but as it looks for now - deep sea mining is leading the field, followed by energy, (wind turbines, current turbines).

The idea that a floating platform can (and will create) a oasis in the desert of the ocean - is prooven. Any debris field and any oil rig is creating such a oasis of life already just by providing shelter - not even starting providing nutrients.

Wilfried Ellmer, industry, logistics integration, management, projects, subsidiary openings, colombia industry development key player network, cartagena colombia, expat manager, advise, consulting, headhunting, project setup, executive search, english, spanish, german, available for projects now.

info@tolimared.com

Hawaii Oceanic Technology, Inc. proposes to produce Yellowfin and Bigeye tuna in which the fingerlings are grown in land-based tanks then grown out to market size in offshore submerged cages, that are self-powered un-tethered "Oceanspheres." The proposed ocean lease site is a one square kilometer (247-acre) site, located 2.6 nautical-miles offshore Malae Point, North Kohala which is outside of the designated whale sanctuary. Twelve Oceanspheres will be deployed incrementally over four years, culminating with an annual production capacity of 6,000 tons.

http://www.hawaiioceanlaw.com/hawaiioceanlaw/2009/02/big-island-ocean-aquaculture-project-draft-eis-available.html

Single hull, whale shaped concrete hull, can do what BEN FRANKLIN did but can also travel at low energy cost over wide distances like a whale.

 

 

. . 

 

-- Edited by admin on Friday 20th of July 2012 05:16:01 PM

To get a closer view how Captain Nemo as a aquaculture pro would live and work, see Neil Sims and ocean cage real world testing. Ocean cages give a better performance than shore near aquaculture.

Neil is talking about the "incredible force of the ocean to break things".

The hardship of living on a ship that is stationary on the ocean and moves all the time.

The idea to work the cages in a "space station like configuration".

And the exceptional Return on Investment of oceanic aquaculture.

Hello Lakeland,

I agree that for a surface floating structure size is of essence as well for providing comfort (movement) as for surviving "tail events" like the draupner wave. Submerged habitats solve both issues for small (family house sized) structures. They can provide movement free comfort and survival in all weather conditions inculding draupner events (comming up 4 times a year).

Concrete domes are a subchapter of concrete shell building, i agree that concrete shells and honeycomb structures are the technology of choice to build structures for ocean colonization.

I have considered 2 hull concepts (pressure resistant inner shell plus streamlined outer hull) especially for underwater salvage sistems. For a habitat i would perfer a single hull concept.

I do not understand what is the use of pvc pipe and how you pretend "increase pressure strength" and "control pressure by valves" - i would see that as a concept error. Finally a concrete shell can go at least 2000m deep so there is no use for complicated uncertain sistems to increase pressure performance parameters.

I also do not see a need to have complicated sistems so replace rudder and propeller - both are items that have their place in naval engineering for good reasons due to their ease of installation and maintenance.

A spherical sub would be a similar concept like sea orbiter - working like a yellyfish - being moved almost entirely by current with low level propulsion - i would see a whale like shape and mobility as a much better concept as it gives you a lot of advantage with no additional cost - why giving away mobility. If you want you can still work a whale shape in drifting mode like BEN FRANKLIN but you are not LIMITED to it as a "clumpsy non streamline shape" would be.

Hull penetrations - the item of a shaft going from a low pressure side to a high pressure side is no "technical issue" - any commercial waterpump and any hydraulics cylinder deals with that.

The seals that are commercially available for this kind of application last for years - if they leak they do it when the sistem is not under pressure - pressure sets them tight.

You should be careful with "designing concepts" on the base of "imaginary problems" creating real problems in the path.

When going for a concept just stick to the proven - use tech items in the same way as they are used for other applications.  -  It is probably for a good reasons why electromagnetic propulsion is not widley in use...but i am no expert on that...so i do not have a solid opinion.

draupner wave video

In re: pressure in lines, I was thinking of pump output pressure in PVC as submerged pressure would be uniform in a streamlining outer hull. As my construction abilities are all related to above sea level building that was my consideration. What I was wondering was if directional water pressure propulsion could mimic electromagnetic propulsion? Also, I thought that hull penetrations (like drive shafts) represented potential weak areas under high pressure.

I enjoy finding ways to build something by revamping concepts I have used before, which was the underlying concept behind my post.

. . . . .

. pilot projects in cartagena - to test out the options of small scale floating concrete platforms - honeycomb structures, shell structures, foam structures - all has been tested in small scale pilot projects.

A small concrete floating structure from a pilot project in Cartagena Colombia - concrete paves the way at sea - not only in large industrial scale - also in smaller scale.

.

... running a diesel 24/7 is not cheap, even if it is the smallest diesel you can find. The beauty of a snorkel boat concept is in the fact that your diesel can be very small - much much smaller than anything that a surface ship of similar size could have.

In a surface ship the diesel needs to be strong enough to bring the bow into the wind during a storm. In a snorkel boat the diesel just has to overcome the windforce created by the sail area of the snorkel.

The diesel in a submarine yacht is ten times smaller, needs ten times less fuel. The high tank capcity is a option that you can take advantage of when you visit a country where diesel is incredible cheap - so you can get a year supply of fuel. You are in no obligation to fill this enourmous tank to start your journey.

If you are low budget you might use your diesel only the first day to engage the golf stream in Florida then shut it down and opt for a pure drift dive ocean crossing as Ben Franklin (see log Benjamin Franklin drift dive) did - and start your diesel again at the end of the voyage when England comes in sight some 45 days later. The total diesel use for crossing the Atlantic would be a few liters.

Other than the Ben Franklin which was assisted by a surface ship to catch the golfsteam - a whale shaped boat with a small diesel can take the trip into the stream with no assitance.

.

The crew of the Ben Franklin was the first to stay in open ocean in a small boat without beeing afected by waves and seea sickness - this leads to the submerged living bubble concept as first choice for colonizing the open oceans with small scale structures.

The fact that oceanic waves move structures makes comfortable stay in open ocean only feasible for structures and platforms in excess of 100m loa and 40m beam - there is only one way to stabilize a small living space in open ocean to "permanent housing comfort grade" - submerge it like Ben Franklin.

Once you achive housing comfort in the open sea - the need to stay in the marina that ties all small yachts- is gone.

A real worldwide nomadic lifestyle can be created.

-- Edited by admin on Monday 3rd of September 2012 08:41:31 PM

/ Contact / Order / Source / Info /

1. Floating Platforms For Aquaculture - PROTEUS SA

   www.proteussa.com/cats_list.asp?e_lang_id=1&e...

   Floating Platforms are used widely in Aquaculture and represent a very cost effective solution for protected and semi-exposed sites. They can be used either as ...
   
2.  

   Floating Platform

   www.asaquaculture.com/Floating_Platforms.html

   ASAKUA floating platforms are designed and built for a wide variety of marine, fishing and rescue applications. Manufactured entirely from rugged high density ...
   
3.  

   Topic: live aboard floating platform for the poor – aquaculture as a ...

   www.seasteading.org › Forums › Archive › Structure Designs

   17 Jul 2010 – Topic: live aboard floating platform for the poor – aquaculture as a sustainable business | Our mission: To further the establishment and growth ...
   
4.  

   Live aboard floating platform for the poor - aquaculture as a ...

   concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/.../live-aboard-floating-pl...

   26 Oct 2011 – Living on the ocean is already happening - superyacht owners do it. Fact is, it is a very small and very exclusive segment of society, that has ...
   
5.  

   Mobile Working Platforms for Aquaculture, Commercial Pontoons ...

   www.eirfloat.com/pontoons_aquaculture.htm

   Military, Public Works & Industrial Applications: commercial pontoons for aquaculture, floating bridges, mobile working platforms.
   
6.  

   floating platform - Zhejiang Zhongya Industrial Co., Ltd. - Alibaba.com

   zhongyamold.en.alibaba.com/product/.../floating_platform.ht...

   Find detailed product information for floating platform and other products from Zhejiang Zhongya Industrial ... swimming pool, as well as aquaculture net cage.
   
7.  

   Offshore aquaculture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_aquaculture

   Experience from outside the aquaculture sector, e.g. with oil platforms, may well ... grown on a tethered rope or suspended from a floating raft in net containers.
   
8.  

   [PDF] 

   Expansion of the PEI Off-Bottom Oyster Aquaculture Industry

   www.naia.ca/acairdn/pdf/PEIAA_Oyster_Report.pdf

   File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
   The Prince Edward Island Aquaculture Alliance and the Island Oyster Growers ...... stable platform than the floating bags and again provide a good platform from ...
   
9.  

   Aquaculture Northern Bali

   wn.com/Aquaculture_Northern_Bali

   Carambas is an Indonesian term for floating platforms. Many of the aquaculture fishermen use these floating devices as a homebase for growing corals.
   
10.  

    MSI: Concrete heavy pontoons, Floating Breakwaters and Offshore ...

    www.msicom.net/default_i.htm

    Concrete heavy pontoons, Floating Breakwaters and Offshore Platforms for Marina Wind Power and Aquaculture.

What about plastic reclamation in the Pacific gyre? Everything done to-date [http://www.projectkaisei.org/index.aspx] seems to be a drop in the bucket. The resource (plastic) is already there; mechanisms for plastic to oil, plastic to building material or regular recycling already exist. Its one of those environmental "feel-good" projects where pictures and documentation of the problem have already been done which easily show this as a growth area for decades to come. Just getting the surface plastic up would take years (decades) even without the fact that plastic is being added daily.

Take the low-income housing aspect, combine it with recycling factory barges which can be towed into place, and you have an immediately exploitable reason (and ability) for seasteading.

There's an enormous after-market for steel shipping containers which can be marine welded into interior steel reinforcement for cast in place monolithic concrete platforms. For that matter, there are already existing companies who convert these containers into living quarters (swap side windows for skylights), which would free up surface areas for solar & wind power generation, greenhouse gardening, raising fowl and rabbits, as well as aquaculture processing in addition to plastic reclamation.

The action of the gyre would keep the whole thing in place (if in place refers to an area the size of North America).

What do you think?

The news articles and accompanying pictures made it look like a huge resource. I should have remembered that "news" tends to be geared towards the hysterical (emotional) response.

What about shipping container salvage? They claim 2000 to 10000 lost at sea each year and losses (and position) is reported when they occur. Just looking at alternatives to aquaculture or mining that would be in range of smaller communities.

yook3.com

• Why going oceanic is next big thing to come in business
• Offshoring megatrend of the century
• Business and Interference Freedom
• Ocean Business Development Key Player Network
• Historical background enlightnment
• Ramform base in the high seas
• Oceanic concrete sphere habitat
• Venice business model